Interview: Kevin Smith -
Extended Version
Interview by Sean Lynch
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Interview with Kevin Smith -
Extended Version
Director and Star of the movie Clerks
II.
Kevin
bumbles into the room wearing his famous 'Silent Bob' jacket, smiley
face button pin included. He searches the room intently for an ash tray
before sitting down on the couch. He has been doing radio and print
interviews since 9am to promote his latest film Clerks
2 (the follow up to his cult 1994 hit which spawned a cult
phenomenon including the films Dogma and Jay
and Silent Bob Strike Back), yet he seems to be lacking any
sign of fatigue.
He
is, after all, one of Hollywood's best self promotion machines - with
numerous Internet sites and two stores dedicated to selling memorabilia
and merchandise from his films. SEAN LYNCH caught up with the self made
millionaire while in Melbourne.
"Any time somebody's willing to
talk about the movie - that's a positive thing. You never want to bitch
about that" Smith says with a relaxed nonchalance as he takes a drag of
the first of many cigarettes.
"I remember going to Atlanta in the States
doing a city by city press tour for Jersey Girl
and we got to Atlanta and had an interview with a paper there and they
were like "Nah, we don't need to talk about it" and then they proceeded
to slam the movie. So it's always nice to come to some place where they
want to talk positively".
WE HAVE 'CLERKS 2' NOW - SO THE BIG
QUESTION IS WHEN'S THE MALLRATS SEQUEL DUE OUT?
If
I was ever to that, I think it would be in comic book form. Because
we've always talked about doing this comic book called "Mallrats 2: Die
Hard In A Mall", which now in the era of "Snakes on a Plane" is kind of
common place. But I guess I'll eventually get around to doing it
because then that way everyone can remain the same age. It'd be kind of
weird for Jason Lee to kind of jump in there, you know, and take that
mustache off [as seen in "My Name Is Earl"], I don't think he'd be
willing to do it...to shave that is.
DO YOU THINK THAT THIS MOVIE
[CLERKS 2] WOULD HAVE HAPPENED HAD THE SHORT LIVED 'CLERKS' CARTOON
SERIES ACTUALLY BEEN WATCHED?
Probably.
Let's say that the 'Clerks Cartoon' had a Simpsons like success. It
still wouldn't preclude me from wanting to do a Dante and Randal live
action film. Just because they are two very separate entities, right?
The cartoon was very slapsticky and Simpsons-esque and what not,
whereas you can be a bit more grounded in live action. So even if the
cartoon had of taken off in a big, big way I'd probably still want to
go back and look at them as real life people.
ARE THERE ANY
UNUSED STORY LINES LEFT OVER FROM THE CARTOON THAT YOU'VE CARRIED OVER
INTO THIS MOVIE, OR HAVE YOU ALWAYS HAD THIS MOVIE IN MIND?
I
didn't always have this movie, but the cartoon stories were just left
of centre. Like there was one we were going to do where Kit, you know
the car from Knight Rider, had this single white female relationship
going on with Dante. Knocked him off. And wound up wearing his sweater
behind the counter and Randal didn't notice at first. You know, stories
like that. So you know, with the movie, we obviously stayed a bit more
grounded.
I ALWAYS LIKED THE EPISODE WITH THE
ANIME PISS-TAKE
WHICH HAD JUDGE REINHOLD POP UP [as an actual Judge]. BECAUSE JUDGE
REINHOLD ISN'T USED ENOUGH. BUT THEN THEY USED THAT EXACT SAME JOKE IN
ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT...[laughs]
[laughs] ...Yeah, Arrested
Development. I was proud of that! I was watching that episode and
going,
like "We were poached by a really talented bunch of comedians".
But
what of Smith's comedic inspiration of the original Clerks film?
According to Smith, things didn't exactly pan out the way most would
have expected upon meeting his childhood idol, Star Wars creator George
Lucas, for the first time. In fact, he still has yet to speak to the
man. "The closet I ever came was when we sound mixed at SkyWalker for
Dogma...and we were at lunch and Rick came in [the producer of the
prequel trilogy who had shown Kevin the Phantom Menace trailer a few
days earlier] with George Lucas".
"...So I saw Rick and went like
that [gives head nod] and he saw me and went like that [gives head nod]
smiled and waved. Then George see's him smiling and waving, so he looks
to me - and we lock eyes - and so I give him that [the head nod] then
he gives me that [the head nod], then he leans over to Rick -
presumably to say "Who the hell is that?". Then Rick leans over,
presumably to say "That's the guy that did Clerks". Then George Lucas
was like "Oh" then looked back and then went looking...elsewhere
[laughs]. So as to avoid a possible fuckin meetup where I would be like
"Dude, I'm obviously a big fan". So I've never had that 'Meet and
Greet' Moment, still to this day".
WELL THERE'S ALOT OF PEOPLE
I'M SURE WHO WOULD BE LIKE THAT WITH YOU, WHERE YOU'RE THEIR INFLUENCE.
YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE 'STAR WARS' AS AN INFLUENCE, BUT WHO IS THE MAJOR
INFLUENCE OF THE STYLE AND WAY THAT YOU WRITE YOUR COMEDY?
..Hal
Hartley. You know, the guy that made "Trust" and "The Unbelievable
Truth" and I had met him long before I'd ever made a flick. I went to a
screening of his movie "Trust", a retrospective screening of it...in
Manhattan. So I went - took my Laser Disc - and he was doing a brief
intro to the movie..so I went into the hallway and asked him to sign it
and I remember being, like, so nervous that mid-signature I was like
"Hurry up dude, the movie is starting".
...Years later he was
promoting a movie in an interview in the New York Times. And the
article begins with, you know, "When asked a question about how he felt
about being cited as an influence for Kevin Smith and being in the
'Clerks' credits, Hal Hartley went off at great length with such a
bitchriolic response that he had to go lay down after the Q &
A"...So at that point I was like, 'I don't wanna meet anybody again'.
Because, just because you like them - doesn't mean they are gonna like
you. Sometimes it's better just to admire these people from afar as
opposed to meeting them because they can't live up to it. Sometimes
people just don't really dig you...
YOU HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN IN
AUSTRALIA LONG, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING YOU KNOW OF AUSTRALIAN COMEDY AT
ALL?
...To me, Australian comedy is like - what - Muriel's Wedding?...yeah.
What else would there be? Cite me an example...
THE CASTLE?
Yeah, that I've seen and I really liked it..
Priscilla?
..Priscilla
I saw and really liked. There was that whole period where there was,
like, alot of Australian films. Strictly Ballroom...right around the
time we were making our stuff.
A GUY YOU SPOKE TO ON RADIO THIS
MORNING, TONY MARTIN - HE AND A GROUP OF 8 OR SO ARE LIKE AUSTRALIAN
COMEDY ROYALTY...
I've
never seen his flick but I'm told it's quite funny. Really good guy -
fun interview. Actually the only Australian film maker that I've met
and ever really spoke with was the guy who did "2:37". And he was a
really nice guy...Not what I would call a comedian...
...SUICIDE IS ALWAYS FUNNY...
[laughs] Killer, Killer comedy. I'm like "This is some funny shit", and
he was all very serious and I'm like "Right On"..
Smith's
latest film about his beloved characters Dante and Randal is all about
guys who have reached their 30's and trying to get their lives
together.
But Smith has a habit of most of his films having a similar character
arc - one has to wonder if "Clerks 2" could have simply been made using
other characters.
"I could have told it with other characters,
and originally that's what I was going to do. Then I was like, well
Clerks was about what it was like to be in my 20's, this is a film
about what it feels like to be in my 30's - why not use Dante and
Randal...So often you see that coming of age story and the only context
you have for those characters is that movie - and I was like, it would
be kind of interesting to do a coming of age story with characters you
actually saw when they were dreaming about coming of age. So I thought
it had this nice little bit of built in poiniency having seen them then
and seeing them now".
"I was really in love with the idea that,
like, everybody looked old. Certainly older - but more to the point -
old. So often you see a sequel to something, and first off
they
do it relatively quickly - most sequels jump right in and try to earn
right off the first one, we weren't that smart...And there was
something
kinda cool in that I look older and fatter, Brian O'Halloran looks
older and fatter, Jeff looks older and paunchier - in fact the only one
that ends up looking better than he did is Mewes. He actually had a
Dorian Grey thing goin on...
THE CLOSURE OF THE CHARACTERS AT
THE END OF THE FILM IS QUITE GOOD. WHETHER THIS FILM WAS MADE OR NOT,
IN YOUR OWN HEAD, DID YOU ALWAYS GO "YEAH, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO
THOSE TWO"?
Yeah, totally. As far back as '99 when we made
"Dogma" we teased "Clerks 2" saying 'Jay and Silent Bob will return in
'Clerks 2: Hardly Clerkin'. And I always knew there would be certain
aspects that would be involved in the flick, and they actually carried
over to years later when I finally made it with this one:
1) It
would open the way it did with the store being on fire, then we'd
introduce colour, then they'd have to go off and find some different
work..
I knew that there's be that dance sequence,
you know,
about falling in love set to "ABC" and I knew they'd end up owning the
store and we'd pull back to black and white and 'Misery' would play,
and those element wound up being in there.
SO YOU HAD ALL THAT IN MIND. YET AT
SOME POINT YOU SAT DOWN AND THOUGHT, ALRIGHT THIS MOVIE IS MISSING A
GUY-FUCKING-A-DONKEY...
[laughs]...Yeah. Well you know, it's about shading in from one beat to
the other beat to the other beat.
So
I'm like, "Alright, I've just gotta find shit to do in between - Mabye
it's time for me to do a donkey show". And not just a standard donkey
show! One where a dude in fuckin thin leather comes walkin' out with a
marble bag. I really just wanted an excuse to have somebody to go
[hocks a loogie in hand] spit in to his hand and lube up his cock. I
just thought that was really funny.
So yeah. Stuff like that just
shades in the beats, you know. Back in the day, when I didn't know if I
was gonna work in the movies I was gonna set it on this boardwalk in
Keensburg, near where we live. But I realised that I hate directing out
in the open cause it's just such a weird fuckin job, it feels made up -
feels make pretend - and I already feel as if I'm a poser anyway. So I
feel even weirder doing it in front of people that aren't involved in
the movie cause people look at you and are like "That's it? You just
sit there behind a monitor and eat and tell people to do it better?
That's not a proper job". So I thought mabye I should move it indoors
where no one can see what going on [laughs], and that became the movie.
Smith's
films, including "Dogma", "Chasing Amy" and "Jay and Silent Bob Strike
Back", all seem exist in the same world - which Smith fans have aptly
dubbed 'The View Askewniverse' - with many characters and events
referenced within each film. And according to Smith, this was no
accident as he was simply "making it up" as he went along.
"Well,
you have to come up with characters. And in the case of "Chasing Amy" I
was like 'Alright, well, I need a girl character - mabye I'll make it
Alyssa Jones' who is referenced in the other movie and I thought it
would be kinda cool to actually see someone who we made just a throw
away reference"..."So I just kind of like this whole idea that everyone
just exists in this one world...I just as much as anybody else like to
the movies and see different events and different scenarios and
adventures and the fact nobody know who anybody is. I kinda really got
off on the notion that all of these stories are set in the same world
where everybody kind of knows each other and you kind of look in on
little pockets of their lives. It's like one big Anthology."
THE
"CLERKS" SERIES IS WELL KNOWN FOR THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING THE
LANGUAGE USED IN IT. IN AN ATTEMPT TO GET SOMETHING TV AND PAPERS CAN'T
PRINT, WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR FAVOURITES SWEAR WORDS. SURELY THERE ARE
SOME THAT HAVE MISSED OUT ON BEING INCLUDED THAT YOU WANTED IN THERE...
There's
nothing that I didn't really put in there. I mean, there was one point
at the end of the Donkey Show sequence [in 'Clerks 2'] where Elias is
running around going 'I love pussy and beer'. We had him jerking off
earlier, but he's supposed to be jerking off at that moment and fuckin'
blasting a cum shot right in the eye of the cop who was like "Porch
Monkey?".
That we left behind, not because we thought
'Well
that's tasteless', just because we thought '...It seems a little
involved...' [laughs]. It's just like [groans] 'How can we do that
cumshot?' and time issues.. [laughs]...so we just said 'fuck it, let's
just break those to things up'. So I don't think theres anything that
we said 'we can't do that, that's crossing the line'.
In terms of
my favourite curses, my favourite curse isn't even all that
interesting.
People wouldnt even consider it a curse. I mean, I love the word
'Whore'. I reckon it's awesome. Like when I stub my toe, or when I'm
playing a video game and I fuckin' can't get over some hurdle - if
there's something thats defeating me - I just turn right to 'Fuckin'
Whore'. Which is interesting when your kid is sitting near by and you
have to explain 'Well, a whore is..well theres two different ways of
looking at it'. It's such a lame easy curse word, I dig it, because it
just covers everything. It's usually more turned inward, it's more self
reflective [talking to self] "You fuckin' Whore...Yeah, well I am kind
of a whore aren't I?".
It's not even a great curse. I wish it
was something like 'Cum Nugget' [laughs]. I love 'Fuck-Tard' but I
don't use that nearly as much as I should...
I'M GOING TO TRY AND GET 'CUM
NUGGET' GOING IN AUSTRALIA..
[laughs]...That's the headline "CUM NUGGET: AN INTERVIEW WITH KEVIN
SMITH" [laughs]...
However,
life isn't all dick and fart jokes for Smith. In fact, his last film
(the critical bomb "Jersey Girl") was largely inspired by his newborn
child Harley Quinn (named after a character in the Batman series). But
what is Silent Bob like as a father, apparently he's "Not To good at
it".
"She
loves me to death, but if somebody had a gun to both of our heads
[himself and his wife Jen] and said pick one - she'd be like 'Oh, Mum'
[laughs]...And I get that, I understand it. Years down the road that's
when I get my time with the kid, that's my time to shine. She's a girl,
so she's gotta come to blows with her mother at some point...But I'm
under no illusions...when people say "That's daddy's little girl" and
I'm like "Nah, that's mummy's girl".
Smith's breakout film in the
early 90's 'Clerks' was famously made on a budget of a mere $27,000
using maxed out credit cards and loans. This time around the budget is
slightly larger at almost $5 Million - tiny for a Hollywood film when
compared to the estimated $400 million spent of Superman Returns.
"You
know, theres very little risk in terms of like - well, we have an
audience that tends to show up - anywhere between 25-30 million bucks.
Like the last three flicks of ours like "Dogma", "Jay and Silent Bob
Strike Back" and "Jersey Girl" were all like 30, 30, 25. So we figure
that's the audience that will show up for this. So as long as our
budget is like five million bucks, you know, then we're on easy street.
And also our DVD is incredibly strong, that's where all the real loot
comes in anyway."
"So as long as the budget was five, we can
get
rid of the show business equation, because the investors know their
going to get their loot back...So their not hounding us for like 'Well
this demographic isn't being spoken to. Put a fuckin' smiling goat in
the movie and that'll help'. So I can go off and make the exact movie I
wanna make without someone being - 'we gotta hit these three points'.
It
also helps Smith avoid the "Batman Begins - throw in a love interest"
aspect of filmaking. Something which he felt that destroyed the latest
Superman film.
"Basically it's to ensure that girls turn up
to
watch the movie. You saw it in full bear force in Superman Returns,
like the posters went from being him - to these posters of him cradling
her...and it's so weird that they think 'Well if we don't put romance
in the movie, chicks won't come to see the flick'.
"Like we
have romance in our stuff...but the biggest romance in this movie is
about two dudes, you know, who are like one cock in the mouth shy of
being gay for one another. So, you know, I never sat there
going
'Well what will bring the female audience in?', I'm like 'Well fuck it,
if they come - they come'. And some come with their boyfriends, and
some come because they like that kinda thing. But your never going to
get the 16 year old girls to come to see this movie, you know, it's not
their cup of tea - not their brand of whimsy."
"Like, in Batman
Begins, that romance - it's like 'what romance?'. It was just a kid he
grew up with and at one point at the end of the movie he's like 'We
should hook up' and she's like 'No'. You know, whatever, let her go off
and beat up on Scarecrow, that's what people want to see.
...AND THEN SHE WENT AND FUCKED TOM
CRUISE...
[laughs]...and then she went and fucked Tom Cruise. And then Tom Cruise
got fired [laughs]...
..HE'S GOT A KID TO FEED!
...yeah
he does. Well, that's what they say - but we've yet to see a picture.
That's strange man, if someone had said a year ago that,
like,
Tom Cruise would not be Tom Cruise at this moment in time I'd go 'Your
out of your mind - Tom Cruise is eternal'. But it's just so weird how
shit changes...Burt Reynolds at one point was the number one highest
grossing box office star, like, not only in the US but in the history
of cinema...And that stopped.
I guess...the shoe falls for
everybody sooner or later, right? If I was like Brad Pitt or fuckin'
George Clooney right now I'd be like 'What can I learn from
this?...[laughs]...to avoid this pitfall?'. But he'll be back, it's not
like he's going to go very far.
But what lays in store now for
Smith. A man, who until recently has only starred in his vehicles of
his own creation. He is set to appear in several films outside of his
domain in the next few years, including "Catch and Release" and
"Southland Tales".
"Well 'Southland Tales' was just Richard
going
'Hey, do you want a part in the flick?'. And he was casting all sorts
of weird people in the flick. It almost seemed like it was a dare. Like
the directors friends said to him 'I dare you to cast Jon Lovitz, Buffy
and Silent Bob...Go!'.
That one I could get my head around,
because it was just for a friend. 'Catch and Release' that was just
very strange at first.
It was like 'We can't get Jack
Black - can you play Jack Black?', and I'm like 'Well, I guess' - so I
wind up being the funny fat friend. But it was kinda fun and a great
experiment seeing what it was like being on other people's sets.
Because I always thought that we ran a very laid back, easy going set -
and then I was on somebody else's set and I realised we run an insanely
easy going set. And I think thats why alot of people like to return,
because if you go elsewhere, it's just a different sense to it all
together. And it's not bad, like 'Catch and Release' wasn't a bad set.
It's just more fun, our atmosphere is almost like...just hangin out.
And what of that mooted Kevin Smith horror
movie?
"Yeah,
after seven comedies in twelve years I thought I should either go left
or right and do something completely different. There's a real sense of
closure to 'Clerks 2', and it's a weird thing, because I finally felt
like 'Wow, well now the sky's the limit'- but the sky was always the
limit. It was just a self imposed ceiling where I was, like, 'I just
like making these movies that are interconnected' and shit like that.
But after 'Clerks 2' it really feels like it's the end of that View
Askewniverse and now I feel like I can try new things. We had a test
run with 'Jersey Girl', which obviously wasn't that successful, but
it's kind of intriguing to me now to be able to do something that's not
ties in - and not even a comedy."
"And I'm afraid that if I tried
a drama I would just lapse back into comedy. I don't know, it's just
the way my brain works, I gotta write funny. In kind of tackling a
suspense genre or a horror genre, I know I'm not going to do a 'Shaun
of the Dead'...or a parody movie like 'Scary Movie' or something. I
just want to do something that's just flat out horror, you know, a
slasher genre or something like that. And in order to do that, I can't
just lean on the dialouge and that will kind of limit my ability to
play it for laughs. So, I don't know, it'd just be kind of fun if I
could pull it off."
If this all goes to plan, we are likely to
see a whole new range of characters and phrases. But what would a Kevin
Smith horror movie be like?
"Wicker Man is kind of a good model
for me, theres also this movie called 'Race of the Devil' which I've
always loved. That's kind of the tone I'm going for. But most people
just assume 'Dude, you already made a horror movie - it was called
'Jersey Girl''. But we're going to go intentional horro this time.
YOU'RE A MYSPACE FAN...
...Yeah - Huge! I'm a MySpace whore. I haven't been on in a while...
WHY HAVEN'T YOU ADDED ME YET?
..Are
your on the waiting list? I just looked last night, and it was just too
intimidating to start tackling because I have to go through and friend
approve 10 at a time. There are 7000 friends lined up. 10 at a time?
That's a fuckin day!
ARE YOU THE SORT OF GUY THAT LEAVES
COMMENTS ON OTHER PEOPLE'S PAGES?
It's impossible. Like right now, I'm at 95,000 - to comment on
everybody...are you looking for a comment? [laughs]...
WELL WE'VE ONLY JUST STARTED ON
THIS MYSPACE THING..
..It's weird isn't it?
IT'S REALLY ADDICTIVE. YOU START
DOING IT, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN - YOU'VE BEEN IN FRONT OF THE
COMPUTER FOR 2 HOURS...
Yeah.
Jason Mewes has been bugging me for about a year and a half saying
'Dude, you should go to MySpace'. Mewes just uses it to get laid. Like,
whatever city he's in, he'll go through his MySpace friends and go 'Hey
I'm in Boston, let's hook up'. So he's constantly getting laid. He's
one of those people who's like 'Send me naked pictures' and people just
do it!..Like chicks...mostly.
The way he described it, I'm like
'I don't want to sexually network - I'm married, you know'
[laughs]...But I checked it out and created a page for myself. And I
thought it would be something I'd do for a week and lose interest in it
- and it just became an obsession. Like every free moment I just go
back to the computer to see how many new friends are lined up and
approve them. And during the promotion of the movie I just kind of fell
behind. so now theres just that day, when I get back home to the states
and I just sit down and approve the 7000 friends.
And at one
point I met one of the MySpace dudes, because me and Zac Braff did this
sitdown thing, and one of the dudes who runs it was like 'We can just
hook you up with an account where you don't have to approve it
yourself, it'll just automatically do it for you'. And it was
tempting. But I don't know, part of the fun of it is seeing if I know
anybody.
Because I remember within the first hundred
friends that
signed up, there was a dude I went to High School with that I hadn't
seen in 15 fuckin' years, and I thought 'Now thats fucked
up'.
And I like doing that and going through them, in case theres somebody
in there that I know. It's happened that one time only, but I figured
out of the first 100,000 I've gotta know more than one.
CLERKS
II is out now on DVD.
Click
Here for the Short Version
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