Interview: Ash Grunwald

By Chris Wood
Interview with Singer/Songwriter, Ash Grunwald

Ash Grunwald

As Australia's premier blues guy, the horizons are definitely looking bright and sunny for Ash Grunwald.

With the release of high selling and critically acclaimed new long player "Fish Out Of Water", it appears the man can do no wrong.

Ash was kind enough to stop by and discuss all things stomp-box’s, hip-hop and James Brown. At some point he also discusses long and obscure (and often unnecessary) stylistic definitions.

You are seen as an independent, DIY type artist. Is this a deliberate move to make your music more authentically "you"?

I think it was a deliberate move to have a strong sense of self. I’ve played solo on stage for a while and still do a fair bit. As well as that, I did most of my own stuff in the studio.

So you didn’t want any external forces operating when it came down to making your music?

Yeah, I didn’t really want any other influences. I didn’t really want to be democratic about it. I just wanted to do my thing.

But things are a lot different now. Especially with Fish out of Water which was produced by Countbounce from TZU.

Now, I’ll put a percussionist on stage. I mean, it still sounds like my earlier stuff, but it has a bit more depth to it.

Talking about "Fish out of Water", it has been seen as a departure.

From your point of view, is it a really dramatic change or do you see it as a natural progression? Did Countbounce help you see things differently?

Yeah I saw it as a progression type thing. Countbounce definitely amplified my sound for me. Between "Give Signs" and "Fish out of Water" was about 2 years, and in that time I learnt how to make electronic beats.

But I realised also that it was a hobby for me. I didn’t think I could do it as well as someone who does it for a living. Someone like Countbounce could do it much better than I could have done myself.

Overall, I have realised that my music has gone a little more in the beats kind of direction. So I would say that in a sense it has been a progression.

You have built up a steady live audience over time. Do you think this gradual approach has been more effective to say, more of a 'breakout' success?

It’s kind of cool I suppose, because you can’t just lose it overnight. Well I hope not anyway. I could still prove myself wrong on that one!!!

Yeah that would suck… [Laughs]

If you’ve built up an audience through playing in their towns, hopefully they’re not going to desert you. I have heard of people who have had more of that instant success who have had not so many people turn up to their shows. I think it is a good way to go.

Not that I would begrudge anyone else or myself for having a hit and having meteoric success as a result of that.

The reality of it is that on a personal level everybody has to deal with success. And part of dealing with success understanding when you peak. That’s a natural thing. That will happen for me and everyone else.

But I think that coming up from the grass-roots level of playing to 5 people, then 10 –people etc, I feel a bit lucky. It’s’ been a bit more of a drawn out process. Every year it just gets bigger. I haven’t had to confront that peak yet (laughs).

I’ll be very ready for it because I’ve thought about that notion for a few years now. Luckily every year that goes by it gets a bit better. I suppose it’s good to build up slowly for your own ego (chuckles)

Considering your, well, considerable reputation, I was amazed to find that you’ve only had the one song in the Triple-J hottest 100.

There are others who have had quite a few songs in there, yet don’t seem to have the reputation that you have?

I’m happy with whatever I can get. The simple fact has been that up until "Give Signs" which was my fourth album, (first studio album), I hadn’t really had any big-time airplay. It was all local stations.

I’ve just done it a different way which was just to keep touring. You can have a minor hit by touring every song and literally selling them out of your own hand and signing to every label. And that’s the way I’ve become known. I suppose it has been a real grass roots thing.

The media thing is only one part of being a musician. It’s still important to be prominent at the grass-roots level.

You, along with other performers of your ilk like Lloyd Spiegel and Xavier Rudd seemed to have built a bridge between the blues genre and a younger-contemporary audience. Was this an intended outcome when you began?

I started off being optimistic, but I thought I would never have a song on Triple J. It was completely unrealistic at the time, being in the small blues scene.

Then the roots thing came along (hosting roots n all on Triple J) and then I thought that my music is roots as well. I jumped on that band-wagon really. But I’ve never really stopped playing blues music. I was really fortunate that it came along at that time.

If it was any other time I might not have been able to have the success that I have had. I was more or less lucky that the scene really took off. My ambition was to play music for a living, and prior to the roots n all gig I was doing this. As soon as this happened I was already stoked.

The rest was just icing on the cake.

The other thing you’ve brought into the public domain is the stomp-box. I’ve noticed that you have a link on your website to a group who sell these. Are they still a big part of your music?

Actually I was triggering electronic drum patterns with those for a while. I’ve gone through a million different things. These days I use electronic drums on my feet. I haven’t used a stomp-box in 2 years. I’m getting more into the electronic side of things.

Now that you’ve alluded to it, what role does electronic wizardry and technology play in your music?

The way I write stuff is sort of in loops, grooves and riffs. And then I think of lyrics and melodies over the top of that. So ironically it’s probably the same way as some people would write an electronically based song.

Sometimes I’ll just pick up a guitar and write a song. A lot of the time it’s all about putting down a riff with the guitar, then chopping it up later. It’s a similar process to anybody else. And I suppose that has implications for the way that I think as a musician.

I’m still trying to get my head around a loop station that I bought recently. How have you managed to do it so well?

I haven’t used one for about 4 years now. Ironically, what I do on stage is 100% live. I play it all live now, and it actually sounds bigger than when I used to loop.

That’s the problem with using loops. Often it doesn’t have the same excitement levels as playing live. I suppose it’s good for cruisy type music. And that can be good for playing in an intimate setting.

But if you’re playing to an attentive audience, I found that playing it live, or getting your loops down quickly is the best way to go.

With regards to your live performance, you seem to have the innate ability to connect with your audience. Is this a fair assessment?

I always try and relate to the audience. You can be really real, or you can just close your personality off completely and let people make their own mind, but they wont ever know you.

They’re both very acceptable. In the early days, I learnt a bit of stage craft from Lloyd Spiegel, who you mentioned before. I used to tour with him, and I used to watch him joke around with the audience. Danni, my girlfriend is very good with talking with the audience.

In the early days, I did a lot of touring where not a lot of people knew who I was. And I would just play a free gig in a country town that wouldn’t normally have music. In a way, you become like a busker, trying to draw people in.

So you feel that this also has helped punctuate your on-stage persona?

Yeah. You learn to become self-sufficient. I think what’s important most of all is just to be relaxed.

You supported James Brown back in 2006. Was this one of those career-defining moments?

I think more in retrospect I’ve come to realize what an honour that was. I actually had a few James Brown records as a kid. It was a really special thing and he’s probably the biggest name I’ve ever supported. It wasn’t like a light shone down on me and everything changed at that particular moment.

But it was definitely a massive honour. And it sounds pretty good saying that you’ve supported James Brown, and people will say, “Oh, you’ve played at the same festival as him.” To which I say, “Nah, I’ve supported him!” (Laughs)

You’ve been nominated for a bunch of awards, and actually won the 2003 MBA Blues Performer of the Year, for which you won a trip overseas.

How important was this for your growth and development as a musician?

I think it gave me a boost to my career. I hoped to go over there, win the competition, make lots of contacts, and have a career in America. None of those things happened.

But I went to Clarkesdale, Mississippi on a day that I had off. And that’s where all the blues guys that I’m into are from. That was really important for me personally. That was a really great experience. And it just really got me happening, and I’m really really appreciative that whole experience even though I didn’t have that initial success in the areas that I thought I would.

How important are programs like this to the growth and development of other, younger aspiring blues musicians?

I think they are great. By the time that came around for me, I was going down that roots track. I didn’t change my music at all, but I was in a different scene.

I suppose I was all over the shop with different things I was doing. But I’m sure that for someone who wants to stick in the blues thing it would be fantastic. And it’s really great for your music. You know, going to some really big blues spots was just awesome!!!

You are about to embark on a gigantic tour of Australia. What else can we expect from you over the coming months? Is it consolidating the success of "Fish Out of Water"?

 My touring circle is getting wider and wider. I’m doing a lot in England and Canada as well. So that will space out the time between albums a little bit, otherwise it gets a bit too hard.

Other than that I’m going to try and develop this style of music that I’m doing, because  I feel like I’m on my own trip. It feels really good. After a few albums, that’s a really good thing. So I just want to keep on developing that, and get a stronger sense of musical self.

So that when you chuck a track on you’ll go, “Oh, that’s Ash Grunwald”. That’s my goal. That’s what all my heroes are like. You chuck on Tom Waits, Howling Wolf or Hendrix, you have this strong sense as soon as you hear it. I just want to keep developing that identity.

You’re audience is quite varied, and your music is quite accessible to a large number of people. Are you on a journey that will specify and narrow-down on the audience that you currently have? Do you think it’s possible to keep this broad listenership?

I think you can get in a bit of trouble trying to second-guess the audience. Within reason, it’s best to try and focus on the music. You don’t want to make some bizarre thing that no-ones going to like, I wasn’t everyone to like my music. But, I just try to keep making a good sounding product.

It is my agenda to make something new. I think "Fish out of Water" did that for me. You know, the combination of the beats and the way it was put together, I think it doesn’t really sound like anything else. I think that I’ll just keep trying to do that.

What that would be, I’m not quite sure. Most likely bluesey, groove-oriented stuff with good lyrics.

Ash Grunwald is touring Australia from May 1, 2009.